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Discussion Starter #1
Will Toyota hold the crown or will VW finally catch them? Interestingly looks like the global heavyweight title is won and lost in China, a notoriously opaque market for Data. Bertel says there are serious doubts in China about the validity of most numbers.

VW is behind right now by 25,000 cars, meaning that for all we know come year end volkswagen has sprinked a hundred thousand or so in false sales in order to reap the marketing mileage of THE BIGGEST!!!


World?s Largest Automaker 2015: Either Toyota, or Volkswagen - Daily Kanban
 

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Not sure if largest is the same as most valued, but I've read in multiple places that Toyota is the most valued auto company in the world.
 

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What are "false sales"? Is that literally cooking the books, or are they going to give out incentives to grow sales a bit?
 

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They might even aim for aggressive pricing that results in them taking a bit of a hit, it's possible how they'll benefit from the marketing advantage will pay off over time.
 

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What are "false sales"? Is that literally cooking the books, or are they going to give out incentives to grow sales a bit?
They use dealers as artificial customers to soak up the volume. The dealers then turn around and sell them as used cars or demos with like 5 miles on the clock...
 

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Discussion Starter #6
already happens rampant in Europe but its a known quantity. China has no rules so no one knows how bad it skews.
 

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They use dealers as artificial customers to soak up the volume. The dealers then turn around and sell them as used cars or demos with like 5 miles on the clock...
That scheme totally makes sense. That is one way to fill your personal or dealership quota and get a bunch more money. In some cases the bonus is more than the price of a vehicle I bet, especially since they sell them back as used.

Ever so slightly slimy, but really not that terrible considering the situation the salespeople and dealerships are in with quotas.
 

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I bet some dealers even use them as loaner vehicles if there's a need for that at their specific dealer with some just getting resold later.
 

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I bet some dealers even use them as loaner vehicles if there's a need for that at their specific dealer with some just getting resold later.
So are loaner cars bought from the auto company by the dealership to give to people?
 

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So are loaner cars bought from the auto company by the dealership to give to people?
In my experience, loaners (and demos) are cars that are in the dealer's inventory. There is a certain mileage/time frame that they must be used for and then the dealer gives an incentive (rebate) to the customer for the extra mileage. Since they are in the inventory, they can be bought at any time, but you will only get the rebate if it meets the requirements.
 

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In my experience, loaners (and demos) are cars that are in the dealer's inventory. There is a certain mileage/time frame that they must be used for and then the dealer gives an incentive (rebate) to the customer for the extra mileage. Since they are in the inventory, they can be bought at any time, but you will only get the rebate if it meets the requirements.
Exactly.

The dealer will even give a few of them to the sales guys to drive around, which in turn works out great if you're trying to sell it to someone since you are basically at that point an owner as well.
 

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So they let the sales people drive them around so that they can sell them at a discounted (rebate) price to customers? Car dealerships have so many tricks up their sleeve.
 

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Pretty much. Sales people that get demos have to pay a certain amount per year to have that option and have to pay for any service that needs to be done to it. A lot of sales staff opt to not pay anything and just drive used cars.
 

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Pretty much. Sales people that get demos have to pay a certain amount per year to have that option and have to pay for any service that needs to be done to it. A lot of sales staff opt to not pay anything and just drive used cars.
The good thing for them it still works out just as good or better than going all in on their own vehicle with everything out of their own pocket.
 

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The good thing for them it still works out just as good or better than going all in on their own vehicle with everything out of their own pocket.
Ultimately they never actually own a vehicle though, which seems like a drawback. Cars aren't good investments, but it seems better to me to own something even if it depreciates in value instead of renting in perpetuity.
 

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Ultimately they never actually own a vehicle though, which seems like a drawback. Cars aren't good investments, but it seems better to me to own something even if it depreciates in value instead of renting in perpetuity.
Not having to own something that's depreciating rapidly as soon as it rolls off the dealership floor doesn't have a drawback, like in this case.

I don't understand why you'd want to throw away money like that in a situation like this, that's just financial illiteracy.
 

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Not having to own something that's depreciating rapidly as soon as it rolls off the dealership floor doesn't have a drawback, like in this case.

I don't understand why you'd want to throw away money like that in a situation like this, that's just financial illiteracy.
The depreciation is obviously not optimal, but i think its better to own something that depreciates than to pay month after month for something that you will never own. At least you can list it as an asset if you buy it, and eventually you can sell it even if it has depreciates.

"Financial illiteracy" is a bit of hyperbole I think.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
The depreciation is obviously not optimal, but i think its better to own something that depreciates than to pay month after month for something that you will never own. At least you can list it as an asset if you buy it, and eventually you can sell it even if it has depreciates.

"Financial illiteracy" is a bit of hyperbole I think.
No you can't consider a car an asset. Its an expense out and out from day one. They'll consider it an asset say you go into bankruptcy, but its not an asset say in the sense of net worth.

Yes you can sell it if it depreciates, but did you forget about the fact that the 40% hit it takes in value doesn't happen in a vacuum, it happens to your money...
 

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No you can't consider a car an asset. Its an expense out and out from day one. They'll consider it an asset say you go into bankruptcy, but its not an asset say in the sense of net worth.

Yes you can sell it if it depreciates, but did you forget about the fact that the 40% hit it takes in value doesn't happen in a vacuum, it happens to your money...
So have you ever bought a car, or do you just lease all of your vehicles?
 

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The depreciation is obviously not optimal, but i think its better to own something that depreciates than to pay month after month for something that you will never own. At least you can list it as an asset if you buy it, and eventually you can sell it even if it has depreciates.

"Financial illiteracy" is a bit of hyperbole I think.
You'll always be at a loss, it's no different than anything else you buy that goes down in value and ONLY goes down, never increasing.

A house someone owns falls into that asset category.
 
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