Scion iM Forum banner

1 - 20 of 22 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
432 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I'm not putting too much weight in this story, but it is certainly something to discuss.

With Scion in need of some invigoration, Toyota North America CEO Jim Lentz told Wards Auto that the brand needs to make a model to rival premium compacts like the Mini Hatch or the Fiat 500. In this circumstance Scion would be filling in the entry-level luxury niche since Lexus has already stated that they won't make any vehicle lower than the CT because they don't want to negatively affect the brand's image.

The devil is in the details though. What would this entry-level vehicle look like? it can't just be a rebadged Toyota or Lexus. Scion needs to take some risks and this could be one way to do it, but it'll take far more than this idea to mark a real change for the brand that started in 2002.

Is Scion Going Premium?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
661 Posts
Not a bad move is this is what they actually plan on doing especially since Lexus doesn't want to go any further down in segments, something which i wasn't aware of previously.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
219 Posts
Thats if you consider FIAT as entry level luxury, the term is becoming severely blurred. Luxury is not fair, entry level luxury is quickly becoming luxury for everybody, which ergo eliminates the luxury.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
432 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
I think it would be a clumsy transition for Scion to go from what it is now to an entry-level luxury brand, but if the transition could actually be made it could work for the company. I guess that would make it like a sportier Buick.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
661 Posts
Thats if you consider FIAT as entry level luxury, the term is becoming severely blurred. Luxury is not fair, entry level luxury is quickly becoming luxury for everybody, which ergo eliminates the luxury.
It's kind of like how some classify a Chrysler 200 as entry-level luxury, so going with that definition of it, i can see where scion can fit in a stay within the price ranges we're use to seeing from them.

I think it would be a clumsy transition for Scion to go from what it is now to an entry-level luxury brand, but if the transition could actually be made it could work for the company. I guess that would make it like a sportier Buick.
It won't be true luxury like Lexus but more so vehicles that have luxury vehicle features from brands mentioned above.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
432 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Comparing it to the Chrysler 200 paints a nice picture. That is a nice car and I could see it being entry level luxury. It would be really cool to see Scion come out with a compact sedan that had a lot of nice features. I could see it being pretty nice if that was the goal they aimed for.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
219 Posts
I think it would be a clumsy transition for Scion to go from what it is now to an entry-level luxury brand, but if the transition could actually be made it could work for the company. I guess that would make it like a sportier Buick.
Buick has cachet and history as luxurious, Scion on the other hand does not...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
432 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Buick has cachet and history as luxurious, Scion on the other hand does not...
Yea because Scion is a new brand. History does make a brand but if you are starting a new brand you have to start making that history. It's a challenge but that is what any new brand has to do.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
363 Posts
What things would you guys like to see scion do as part of a move to have luxury features and to even rightfully hold that Luxury status?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
219 Posts
Yea because Scion is a new brand. History does make a brand but if you are starting a new brand you have to start making that history. It's a challenge but that is what any new brand has to do.
history does in fact make a brand, thats why established is prefered to upstart. tell ferrari their history doesn't matter, tell ford their history doesn't matter.

I don't see how can honestly believe that when were staring at history vs no history in the same show rooms. Toyotas sell scions do not.. Toyota has a historical positioning, reliable and affordable. Brand is the sum of a consumers perceptions and interactions with you which ergo equals HISTORY.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
363 Posts
What does help on scions end is a good portion of folks are aware of which primary brand actually owns them, one of the more obvious signs are seeing scion dealers on the same lot or attached to a Toyota dealer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
661 Posts
history does in fact make a brand, thats why established is prefered to upstart. tell ferrari their history doesn't matter, tell ford their history doesn't matter.

I don't see how can honestly believe that when were staring at history vs no history in the same show rooms. Toyotas sell scions do not.. Toyota has a historical positioning, reliable and affordable. Brand is the sum of a consumers perceptions and interactions with you which ergo equals HISTORY.
part of the reason why i hated them for rebadging the new 86 as a scion, would have been a **** of a lot cooler to have a USDM Toyota 86 instead of calling it a Scion
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
219 Posts
Fully agreed on the 86, I'm willing to be that 86 badge kit sales outpace US FRS sales ;):D

On the note of scion as semi luxury, can someone tell me how repositioning Scion is going to change the issues that plague Scion? Becoming a pseudo luxury brand not magically alter brand perception, not to mention what are they going to do with the existing perception?

Just wake up one day and say we are because we said we were!!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
363 Posts
who ever aside from the dealers were selling toyota badges and even 86 badges were around during that big peak of buyers made some good dough!

and it wasn't like you could just remove the scion emblem and call it a day...what would fill the placeholder? it just looks horrible without.




better example...

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
432 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
Fully agreed on the 86, I'm willing to be that 86 badge kit sales outpace US FRS sales ;):D

On the note of scion as semi luxury, can someone tell me how repositioning Scion is going to change the issues that plague Scion? Becoming a pseudo luxury brand not magically alter brand perception, not to mention what are they going to do with the existing perception?

Just wake up one day and say we are because we said we were!!!!
Hypothetically you would be able to see the change in their products and it would happen over time. It wouldn't be an overnight thing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
219 Posts
Hypothetically you would be able to see the change in their products and it would happen over time. It wouldn't be an overnight thing.
Ok and what do you do in the interm, sell XB's and fancier corollas, but not so fancy that people don't buy IS' while hoping to sneak leather seating quietly past the 12 consumers queued??

Scion has a product problem, the product directly affects how they are perceived...

You don't get to shift a brand from a cheap also ran, into something on par with Buick. If consumers were THAT stupid you wouldn't need brands to begin with...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
432 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
I'm not an expert on this or anything, but they would basically have to phase in the new brand identity one model at a time. I think the best example of this right now is Lincoln. They have remained luxury the whole time, but they have also switched their design language and brand image slowly over the past while.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
219 Posts
I'm not an expert on this or anything, but they would basically have to phase in the new brand identity one model at a time. I think the best example of this right now is Lincoln. They have remained luxury the whole time, but they have also switched their design language and brand image slowly over the past while.
Lincoln was ever positioned below Ford and they never changed market segments. Yes they are undergoing an overhaul but they're still using the same basic positioning. Lincoln never had to leap frog Ford, If Scion does that they have to prove why now people should buy Scions for more money and not Toyotas while at the same time proving to people that they don't need to spend the little bit extra on a Lexus...

Sticking with FoMoCo, thats exactly why Mercury was canned. There was no place for a go between Lincoln and Ford, just like there is no place for a Go between Toyota and Lexus...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
432 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
Okay but Buick does exist and is doing pretty well. I agree on the leap frog thing. I can't give an example where it has happened before, but that is not to say it couldn't. There have been some brands that try to move up segment like Hyundai with the Genesis, which was a success.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
219 Posts
Okay but Buick does exist and is doing pretty well. I agree on the leap frog thing. I can't give an example where it has happened before, but that is not to say it couldn't. There have been some brands that try to move up segment like Hyundai with the Genesis, which was a success.
Buick also uses a completely distinct product to either Chevrolet or Cadillac. besides, how well is well? They're a tick above 200,000 units annually, while certainly more than Scion its not bring the house down success either.

The Genesis has certainly not moved Hyundai anymore up market then they were before, they're still perceived much worse than either the Domestics or the Japanese.

You also have to consider that Buick, Chevrolet and Cadillac are sold in 3 distinct dealer networks. Is Toyota prepared to either piece out Scion into its own existing dealer netowork, will they be comfortable having Scion and Toyotas so closely aligned in the same show rooms, or conversely would they now shove scion down the throats of their Lexus dealers?

If you can't find a sufficient example do you not think there is a reason for that? i.e the cost to build/reposition a brand far outweighs its benefits (which is realistically saying that the cost to message and logistically reposition a brand are astronomically high and beyond prohibitive)
 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Top