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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I was able to test drive new 2018 Camry LE. What a terrible car it is!

The good: Handling is improved, it drives solid, fast and responsive. Seats are comfortable. Interior quality is great for its class - plastic, doors, screens - everything is good.

The bad: "cockpit" front seat design is the worst idea someone had and surprisingly, Toyota gave it a green light. Instead of a comfortable bullet-proof mid-size sedan Camry turned into wanna-be race car that has terrible leg room, terrible hip room, low roof and a generally cramped interior. Front passenger has to suffer with his knees being blocked by a panel that runs from the dashboard to the center console.

The worst: Camry jumped in price a lot. $40k for top of the line MSRP? Are you kidding me? I would rather get a Lexus ES350, which will actually be a comfortable large sedan with open interior design up front and yet still better interior quality overall.

I would not say previous Camry was amazing, but it was a decent every day sedan. For the first time in my life, I actually hope new Camry fails in sales. Toyota is trying to cater to wrong audience with their car, hipster kids will not be buying a Camry, no matter how sporty it is going to be. But older folks will go with a new 2018 Accord instead, which looks wonderful inside, almost German.
 

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That's the thing. Every other maker is making their sedans "sporty." Toyota was getting left in the dust.

I personally have not driven one, so no comment personally, but the reviewers seem favorable.
 

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I'm not a fan of the latest hyper-aggressive and overdone cartoony styling trend in general, and the Camry is too large for my taste anyway, as I tend to always prefer subcompact or compacts vehicles. It's like everyone is trying to design clown-cars for 16 year olds now.
 
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I was able to test drive new 2018 Camry LE. What a terrible car it is!

The good: Handling is improved, it drives solid, fast and responsive. Seats are comfortable. Interior quality is great for its class - plastic, doors, screens - everything is good.

The bad: "cockpit" front seat design is the worst idea someone had and surprisingly, Toyota gave it a green light. Instead of a comfortable bullet-proof mid-size sedan Camry turned into wanna-be race car that has terrible leg room, terrible hip room, low roof and a generally cramped interior. Front passenger has to suffer with his knees being blocked by a panel that runs from the dashboard to the center console.

The worst: Camry jumped in price a lot. $40k for top of the line MSRP? Are you kidding me? I would rather get a Lexus ES350, which will actually be a comfortable large sedan with open interior design up front and yet still better interior quality overall.

I would not say previous Camry was amazing, but it was a decent every day sedan. For the first time in my life, I actually hope new Camry fails in sales. Toyota is trying to cater to wrong audience with their car, hipster kids will not be buying a Camry, no matter how sporty it is going to be. But older folks will go with a new 2018 Accord instead, which looks wonderful inside, almost German.
I think it depends on someones preference... For example, I can see that based on your cars that you previously owned, you like Hondas... I have been driving Toyotas my whole life. From corolla, supra, and Highlander. I actually liked the new 2018 Camry SE and the 4 cyl XSE. I did a test drive today. If I am in the market, I would buy one. Like every toyotas I have driven, all the controls are user friendly.

I could not say anything about 2018 accord since I have not driven it yet. Based on the pctures, I already seen something I dont like, the huge TV look dash monitor. One of the reasons why I did not like mazda3 (again, that is my own opinion).
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I think it depends on someones preference... For example, I can see that based on your cars that you previously owned, you like Hondas... I have been driving Toyotas my whole life. From corolla, supra, and Highlander. I actually liked the new 2018 Camry SE and the 4 cyl XSE. I did a test drive today. If I am in the market, I would buy one. Like every toyotas I have driven, all the controls are user friendly.

I could not say anything about 2018 accord since I have not driven it yet. Based on the pctures, I already seen something I dont like, the huge TV look dash monitor. One of the reasons why I did not like mazda3 (again, that is my own opinion).
Yes, I was always a Honda fan, but it is funny that Honda is getting more plush and comfy, while Toyota is trying to be aggressive and sporty. It feels like Honda and Toyota are swapping their spots. But generally speaking, I don't like cramped interior cars. I hated new Nissan Maxima for this reason as well. This is the reason why I got my iM, it is small, but very roomy inside with open dash design and low-sitting console.

As far as TV-screen display - most German cars now have it. I don't like it as well, but it does look better on the new Accord than it looks on most German cars. Otherwise, 2018 Accord interior looks wonderful, almost like a new Audi A4. 2018 Camry interior is just weird.
 

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Yes, I was always a Honda fan, but it is funny that Honda is getting more plush and comfy, while Toyota is trying to be aggressive and sporty. It feels like Honda and Toyota are swapping their spots. But generally speaking, I don't like cramped interior cars. I hated new Nissan Maxima for this reason as well. This is the reason why I got my iM, it is small, but very roomy inside with open dash design and low-sitting console.

As far as TV-screen display - most German cars now have it. I don't like it as well, but it does look better on the new Accord than it looks on most German cars. Otherwise, 2018 Accord interior looks wonderful, almost like a new Audi A4. 2018 Camry interior is just weird.
Like I said, own preference. I was never a fan of German cars either lol... Camry interior maybe weird for others but looks excellent for some people like I do. I liked the seats (softex) from last gen camry se. The 2018 camry SE seats more comfy though compared from last model. Again, this is my own preference. ;)
 

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I was able to test drive new 2018 Camry LE. What a terrible car it is!

The good: Handling is improved, it drives solid, fast and responsive. Seats are comfortable. Interior quality is great for its class - plastic, doors, screens - everything is good.

The bad: "cockpit" front seat design is the worst idea someone had and surprisingly, Toyota gave it a green light. Instead of a comfortable bullet-proof mid-size sedan Camry turned into wanna-be race car that has terrible leg room, terrible hip room, low roof and a generally cramped interior. Front passenger has to suffer with his knees being blocked by a panel that runs from the dashboard to the center console.

The worst: Camry jumped in price a lot. $40k for top of the line MSRP? Are you kidding me? I would rather get a Lexus ES350, which will actually be a comfortable large sedan with open interior design up front and yet still better interior quality overall.

I would not say previous Camry was amazing, but it was a decent every day sedan. For the first time in my life, I actually hope new Camry fails in sales. Toyota is trying to cater to wrong audience with their car, hipster kids will not be buying a Camry, no matter how sporty it is going to be. But older folks will go with a new 2018 Accord instead, which looks wonderful inside, almost German.
I've already driven a 2018 Camry SE and I couldn't disagree more on what you didn't like. I'm 6'2" and 250 lbs and I had plenty of room. It was comfortable and I sat in both front seats and the back seat. I love the cockpit design, best looking interior ever on a Camry. My only negative is the size of the car as it's gotten to big for me. The other killer is that you can't get a manual with one any more. But the car as a whole I love. I love the SE and XSE but I'm not a fan of the front grill that is so big on the non SE/XSE models.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I've already driven a 2018 Camry SE and I couldn't disagree more on what you didn't like. I'm 6'2" and 250 lbs and I had plenty of room. It was comfortable and I sat in both front seats and the back seat. I love the cockpit design, best looking interior ever on a Camry. My only negative is the size of the car as it's gotten to big for me. The other killer is that you can't get a manual with one any more. But the car as a whole I love. I love the SE and XSE but I'm not a fan of the front grill that is so big on the non SE/XSE models.
Sure, we can agree to disagree, but I just see no point in buying a large car without being able to move inside. It just kills the whole point of buying a large car. Corolla is a winner in this situation, and it has a much better simple dashboard design.
 

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Sure, we can agree to disagree, but I just see no point in buying a large car without being able to move inside. It just kills the whole point of buying a large car. Corolla is a winner in this situation, and it has a much better simple dashboard design.
But the suspension, room, power and MPG with the Camry can all out perform the Corolla. Like I said though, I personally wouldn't buy a Camry due to the overall size and no MT option but the overall design and style are amazing. Just seeing the SE/XSE on the road and it will turn heads.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
But the suspension, room, power and MPG with the Camry can all out perform the Corolla. Like I said though, I personally wouldn't buy a Camry due to the overall size and no MT option but the overall design and style are amazing. Just seeing the SE/XSE on the road and it will turn heads.
I am not so sure about some family sedan "turning heads", unless you drive it somewhere deep country side, where people only drive American pickups. Power is nothing to brag about, competition such as Ford Fusion and Ford Taurus had this much power for a while, Fusion Sport has 325 horses, Taurus SHO has 365 horses. In a recent Motor Trend testing 2018 Accord performed better than 2018 Camry in almost every category. New Camry does look good on the outside and I bet it has amazing quality and reliability, but that's all I see.

2018 Toyota Camry XSE V-6 vs. 2018 Honda Accord Touring 2.0T Comparison - Motor Trend
 

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I am not so sure about some family sedan "turning heads", unless you drive it somewhere deep country side, where people only drive American pickups. Power is nothing to brag about, competition such as Ford Fusion and Ford Taurus had this much power for a while, Fusion Sport has 325 horses, Taurus SHO has 365 horses. In a recent Motor Trend testing 2018 Accord performed better than 2018 Camry in almost every category. New Camry does look good on the outside and I bet it has amazing quality and reliability, but that's all I see.

2018 Toyota Camry XSE V-6 vs. 2018 Honda Accord Touring 2.0T Comparison - Motor Trend
Yes, Sedans does turn heads too. I live in Southern California and we actually get hooked looking at these sedans. At work, these 2018 Camrys do caught our attention specially the SE and XSE. Now, we are waiting for someone to buy the 2018 accord so we can see it around the work place.

As for the motor trend comparison, I dont based buying a car on these reviews. I go out there and drive the car. If I like it, thats the one I drive. Like I said on the previos post, its your own preference. Motor Trend or other reviewers may say that the other car performs the other. To my review, it may be the other way around. Again, own preference.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Yes, Sedans does turn heads too. I live in Southern California and we actually get hooked looking at these sedans. At work, these 2018 Camrys do caught our attention specially the SE and XSE. Now, we are waiting for someone to buy the 2018 accord so we can see it around the work place.

As for the motor trend comparison, I dont based buying a car on these reviews. I go out there and drive the car. If I like it, thats the one I drive. Like I said on the previos post, its your own preference. Motor Trend or other reviewers may say that the other car performs the other. To my review, it may be the other way around. Again, own preference.
Where do you work? How do you get "hooked" looking at the sedans? I only notice exotic cars at my workplace. Of course, everyone smart enough absolutely needs to test drive every car he is interested in. That's why I will go test drive new 2018 Accord 2.0T as soon as it hits the dealers. Car magazines usually do a decent job highlighting the differences, so it is useful to read them before you shop.
 

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Where do you work? How do you get "hooked" looking at the sedans? I only notice exotic cars at my workplace. Of course, everyone smart enough absolutely needs to test drive every car he is interested in. That's why I will go test drive new 2018 Accord 2.0T as soon as it hits the dealers. Car magazines usually do a decent job highlighting the differences, so it is useful to read them before you shop.
I work here at General Atomics here in Poway, California. We get hooked looking at diiferent types of cars; compact, hatch, trucks, suvs , and yes, exotic cars too. I never said anything about looking at sedans only. Thats why I said we get hooked looking at sedans "too". If you only look at exotic cars, there is nothing wrong with that. That is your own preference. What is wrong at looking at sedans? Isnt thats the same reason why you want to see the 2018 accord? There is a lot of sedan drivers here at work like lexus 200ts, BMW 3 series, toyota camrys, honda accords, and etc. Just like the other day, we were comparing the C-HR and the HR-V. Personally, I like the C-HR better than HR-V. Again, my own preference. There is a lot of different types of people here at work. Some gets hooked on lifted trucks, some motorcycles, and some at electric cars. For me, the only time I looked at electric cars is when my friends pass me on HOV lane while I am stuck in traffic ;) lol... Again, own preference.

As for the magazines, yes, I do read them. I even watch and car reviews on the internet. I never said anything about not reading them. I said, I based my reviews and buying decision on my own review and experience. The reviewers on car magazine does not drive the car the way I drive it. And I dont drvie the car the way other people drive it. Again, own preference. :)

I chose to have an MKIII 1991 turbo supra instead of the MKIV twin turbo supra. I know the MKIV is much lighter and has more power. I chose the MKIII model because I prefer more of the 90's look.... Again, own preference. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
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I work here at General Atomics here in Poway, California. We get hooked looking at diiferent types of cars; compact, hatch, trucks, suvs , and yes, exotic cars too. I never said anything about looking at sedans only. Thats why I said we get hooked looking at sedans "too". If you only look at exotic cars, there is nothing wrong with that. That is your own preference. What is wrong at looking at sedans? Isnt thats the same reason why you want to see the 2018 accord? There is a lot of sedan drivers here at work like lexus 200ts, BMW 3 series, toyota camrys, honda accords, and etc. Just like the other day, we were comparing the C-HR and the HR-V. Personally, I like the C-HR better than HR-V. Again, my own preference. There is a lot of different types of people here at work. Some gets hooked on lifted trucks, some motorcycles, and some at electric cars. For me, the only time I looked at electric cars is when my friends pass me on HOV lane while I am stuck in traffic ;) lol... Again, own preference.

As for the magazines, yes, I do read them. I even watch and car reviews on the internet. I never said anything about not reading them. I said, I based my reviews and buying decision on my own review and experience. The reviewers on car magazine does not drive the car the way I drive it. And I dont drvie the car the way other people drive it. Again, own preference. :)

I chose to have an MKIII 1991 turbo supra instead of the MKIV twin turbo supra. I know the MKIV is much lighter and has more power. I chose the MKIII model because I prefer more of the 90's look.... Again, own preference. :)
It sounds like you are a fellow contractor. Full electric cars are amazing. When they finally make them comfortable and somewhat cheap, I am buying one. Chevy Bolt drives great. No more gasoline, no more oil changes and virtually no maintenance.
 

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It sounds like you are a fellow contractor. Full electric cars are amazing. When they finally make them comfortable and somewhat cheap, I am buying one. Chevy Bolt drives great. No more gasoline, no more oil changes and virtually no maintenance.
There are still several issues with all-electric vehicles

1- Charge time. Even with the Super Chargers, you are down for an hour of charge time. With a non-Super Charger, it is significantly longer. Now if you are simply using this car around town and can charge every night, fine. But if you are taking a road trip it, this can be a significant time killer.

2- Charge locations. I am sure this is going to improve, but for now, it is a real issue. In major cities, there are chargers to be found, but you often have to go out of your way to find one. And road trip, good luck.

3- Reliability and Repair costs. This is a big unknown so far but any servicing on the battery cells is going to be expensive and very specialized.
 

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It sounds like you are a fellow contractor. Full electric cars are amazing. When they finally make them comfortable and somewhat cheap, I am buying one. Chevy Bolt drives great. No more gasoline, no more oil changes and virtually no maintenance.
Yes, I know they are amazing. I am not closing my mind of getting one. Its just that, I drive 100 miles round trip to and from work and I know it would not work. The only ideal electric cars right now, with respect to range, are the bolt and tesla. But like the points that davect01 made, are the reasons that are making the decision a little bot complicated. I think l will wait to see how my coworkers handle their electric cars in a 5yr window before I decide. :)
 

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Currently, electric cars are really confined to the market of people who own houses with dedicated garage parking/charging, as opposed to living in apartments/condo's, etc. This literally cuts their available market demographic to less than half versus non-electric cars.

I'm personally more open to purchasing a good (small) hybrid, and would already own one if Toyota bothered to release the Auris or Yaris hybrid in the U.S. market, instead of their various unsightly Prius abominations. I just can't buy a car that I hate the styling of. I'm actually somewhat tempted to buy a lightly used 2017 Lexus CT200H in 2019-2021 when I purchase my next vehicle, as 2017 will be its last model year before being discontinued. My next car will likely either be a Toyota iM, another Toyota Yaris SE, or the 2017 Lexus CT200H (I'm a hatchback-car kind of person). The main purchase impetus for my next car is that after driving nothing but manuals for 35+ years, I'm finally ready for an automatic as a daily driver, considering the commutes are just getting worse and worse for rush hour congestion & stop/go driving where I now live. Sort of kills the fun of driving a manual.
 
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
There are still several issues with all-electric vehicles

1- Charge time. Even with the Super Chargers, you are down for an hour of charge time. With a non-Super Charger, it is significantly longer. Now if you are simply using this car around town and can charge every night, fine. But if you are taking a road trip it, this can be a significant time killer.

2- Charge locations. I am sure this is going to improve, but for now, it is a real issue. In major cities, there are chargers to be found, but you often have to go out of your way to find one. And road trip, good luck.

3- Reliability and Repair costs. This is a big unknown so far but any servicing on the battery cells is going to be expensive and very specialized.
1. Charge time is an issue, but how often do most people take long road trips? I go far possibly once a month, that's it. So 90% of the time you are commuting work/home/getting groceries.

2. Charge locations will be improving. My office has charge stations in the garage. My apartment building has them in the garage as well.

3. Reliability is wonderful. There are no parts that can easily break. Electric motors can go forever, they are super simple compared to gasoline/diesel motors.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 · (Edited)
Currently, electric cars are really confined to the market of people who own houses with dedicated garage parking/charging, as opposed to living in apartments/condo's, etc. This literally cuts their available market demographic to less than half versus non-electric cars.

I'm personally more open to purchasing a good (small) hybrid, and would already own one if Toyota bothered to release the Auris or Yaris hybrid in the U.S. market, instead of their various unsightly Prius abominations. I just can't buy a car that I hate the styling of. I'm actually somewhat tempted to buy a lightly used 2017 Lexus CT200H in 2019-2021 when I purchase my next vehicle, as 2017 will be its last model year before being discontinued. My next car will likely either be a Toyota iM, another Toyota Yaris SE, or the 2017 Lexus CT200H (I'm a hatchback-car kind of person). The main purchase impetus for my next car is that after driving nothing but manuals for 35+ years, I'm finally ready for an automatic as a daily driver, considering the commutes are just getting worse and worse for rush hour congestion & stop/go driving where I now live. Sort of kills the fun of driving a manual.
I agree, Prius just looks too weird. I also don't like having my steering wheel on my knees, new Prius does not let you to raise your steering wheel. As far as Lexus CT200h, I didn't like it at all. Small car, but with a huge wide console in the middle, just like other large Lexus cars. Quality wise Lexus CT200h is great, but it rides just slightly better than our iM, it is the same setup like Prius. It does look good, but I believe our iM is just a way better value with more leg room. 2019 iM could be a wonderful replacement choice instead of a used CT200h, unless you just like it and/or care about interior quality/brandname.
 
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I agree, Prius just looks too weird. I also don't like having my steering wheel on my knees, new Prius does not let you to raise your steering wheel. As far as Lexus CT200h, I didn't like it at all. Small car, but with a huge wide console in the middle, just like other large Lexus cars. Quality wise Lexus CT200h is great, but it rides just slightly better than our iM, it is the same setup like Prius. It does look good, but I believe our iM is just a way better value with more leg room. 2019 iM could be a wonderful replacement choice instead of a used CT200h, unless you just like it and/or care about interior quality/brandname.
I like the thought of getting a hybrid, but I doubt I would select a used CT200h over a new iM or another Yaris SE when it comes down to it (plus, the Lexus name (among others) is a turn-off personally, and synonymous with snobby in my mind for some reason). The iM is at the top of my list, but I'm wondering if will get a likeable refresh/redesign for 2019 or 2020. Another Yaris SE is also a good possibility (I love my current one), but since I'm not a fan of the recent 2018-2020 (?) refresh changes to the exterior, I would likely have to wait until the 2021 model (assuming I even like it) - which is likely to be the first all-new generation top-to-bottom nuts-and-bolt design since it's U.S. debut in 2007, and based on Toyota's new global architecture platform (just like the 2019 European Auris is slated to be, I believe). It should be interesting to see what comes out in the next 2-3 years. Honda might even get their act together again and start making cars that don't make me cringe whenever I see them on the road (like the latest Civic & Fit, to name two).
 
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